Is it really possible to go from single-family deals to a $300 million real estate development project? Darren Voros says it is! Darren is a real estate investor, coach, and co-founder of REDI Developments. He joins host Sam Wilson to share it doesn’t matter whether you’re doing 20 units or 500, it’s the same process. From renovating to investing and development, Sam offers valuable tips to help you take the next step in your real estate journey. Sam also shares how he uses YouTube to educate more people on real estate investing and why it could also be good for your business. Plus, he spills details on the $300 million development project that he is currently working on. Keep your ears glued to learn more!
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Listen to the podcast here:
Taking The Leap From Single-Family Deals To A $300 Million Dollar Real Estate Development Project With Darren Voros
Darren Voros has a diverse skillset that has taken him to many stages around the world. He has been featured as an on-air renovation expert on The Goods on CBC and CityLine on Citytv. He was also the behind-the-scenes contractor on Save My Reno on HGTV and Game of Homes on the W Network. He is an accomplished real estate investor, trainer and coach. He controls a portfolio of properties worth over $20 million and has traveled across the US and North America, educating, inspiring and motivating audiences on the subject of real estate investing. His willingness to give back prompted him to launch his YouTube channel in 2020 to have a wider reach in educating investors.
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Darren, welcome to the show.
Thanks so much for having me on. I appreciate it.
Tell us two things. Where are you based out of and what’s been the highlight of your day?
I’m based out of Toronto, Ontario in Canada, your neighbors to the North. The highlight of my day was I had lunch with some business partners of mine looking at a $300 million development right here in Toronto. That was a pretty cool way to have lunch.
I look forward to circling back on that conversation because I want to hear more about how you positioned yourself to get there. There are three questions I ask every person who comes on the show. Where did you start? Where are you now? How did you get there?
I started in 2002. I worked over in Japan for one year. My previous life was musical theater. I worked over at Universal Studios in Osaka, Japan. For that year, I didn’t have a lot of expenses. I saved up a little bit of money. I came back home at the end of that year and I didn’t know what to do with that money. I thought, “I’ve heard that buying real estate is not a bad investment.” I did that. I didn’t have a great experience out of the gate, but I held that property for a few years and rented it out.
At the end of that four-year period that I had it, I sold it for double what I paid for it. I went and bought three properties after that within about a six-month period. That was when I got excited about that exponential growth in the real estate investing portfolio. Since then, I’ve done quite a few different things, mostly in the renovation space, conversions, duplexes, triplexes and fourplexes. We’re getting into a lot more larger projects. We do eight-unit conversions and all kinds of stuff in Toronto. We’re doing purpose-built developments, 33, 44, 200 units. That thing is our bread and butter.
You’re more on the GC side of things than you are on the active ownership side.
I’ve done both. I was in there swinging the hammer for a couple of years. I loved it. Renovation is such a cool space to be in. It’s one of the most gratifying jobs I’ve ever had in my life. You start the day with something and you finish the day with something else, if all goes well. You can’t scale a business that way, so I had to step back to build. Since doing that, I’ve gotten into bigger projects and more partnerships and grown the portfolio significantly from there.
To get a quick snapshot of your business, are you still on the general contractor side of things or is it more on the active ownership side?
I’m more on the active ownership side. We have a construction manager that deals with most of our projects. All of our development projects are a little bigger than I would even manage, so we’re hiring project managers and builders in that space of doing these $10 million, $12 million, $15 million builds. It’s over my head when it comes to being a GC.
What was that transition like going from the active guy swinging the hammer to running the company and then going into the active side on the ownership side of the business?
It was a hard transition. I grew up in a middle-class family. We were taught that to get something in life, you have to work for it. It’s something that I still struggle with, that mindset of you don’t have to do everything. You let people do what they do best. If I’m the visionary of the company, I have to be free to make those decisions, be able to sit back and look at where I want to go. If the day-to-day tasks bog me down, it’s nearly impossible to have that opportunity to continually grow and expand.
You don’t have to do everything. Let people do what they do best.
How have you freed yourself from those daily entanglements of being bogged down by the minutiae?
I’m sure you’ve either heard of it or read the book Who Not How. It was a transformational thing for me saying, “There’s got to be somebody out there that knows how to do this and they probably know how to do it better than me. It’s a matter of what is the cost of that? Does it make sense in your business? When do you start to implement that?” Simple things like bookkeeping, social media management and my YouTube channel manager. All that stuff could be sourced out.
What’s often holding me back was, “No one knows how to do it as good as I can do it,” which is a complete bull. You’re not hiring the right people or you’re not paying them enough money. If you can find those two things, you can pass those things off to people, sit in your level of expertise where you should be and not getting bogged down by the day-to-day operations.
Talk to us about your YouTube channel. I know in your bio it says that you launched that in 2020 but it sounds like that’s something that you’ve poured a lot of time and effort into.
There was a little bit of a niche missing in the YouTube space and I wanted to go after that. That was education around real estate investing specifically. A bite-sized content that was hard-hitting, 8 to 10 minutes, heavy on the content side. That’s what my channel does. I spent a lot of time, in the beginning, getting the model ironed out. I was doing everything from the start and I’m hitting my stride. I’m not massive or anything.
I have 7,500 subscribers, but that’s pretty good growth for a YouTube channel in a year and a half. That’s been all organic. I get a lot of feedback. When I’m raising capital and putting together development projects, most of the people that I talk to, I’m such a huge fan of the idea of going out and being a content creator because it gives you an edge in this space.
If people have heard your podcast, seen you on your YouTube channel or Instagram, it gives them that level of familiarity. It eliminates a lot of those initial conversations of, “What do you do? What’s going on?” People meet me and they feel like they know me a little bit. That’s been a huge boost to my business.
One of the things that I commonly hear people struggle with is, “It’s already been written about.” They’ll say that. “Somebody else has already talked about it.” That’ll be another line or the other thing maybe is, “I don’t know what to talk about.” How do you overcome those?
Everyone has a unique voice. If it’s authentic to you, it’ll always have a different take on it. We all start there. We find somebody that we like and we start to emulate them a little bit. Eventually, if you’re true to who you are, you’re going to have a different path and a different turn in something that resonates with people. I had the same thoughts too. I’m not telling anybody anything that they haven’t already heard before.
It’s in how I tell it that somebody may hear it a different way. That’s where you have to get over that and start creating your content. You’ll get initial feedback on what people like and don’t like about your thing and then you can expand on that. As long as it’s authentic to you and you feel like you’re being yourself, there’s a ton of area that is still untapped in the world of social media and thought leadership platforms.
Everyone has a unique voice. If you’re true to who you are, you’re going to have a different spin on something that resonates with people.
It’s a very iterative process.
Yes, 100%.
On your channel, is it just you presenting information or do you do an interview-style? How does that flow for you?
I did both. I was doing just me, shoot to camera, very edited, lots of graphics and everything. I love that style. That’s where I get the most views but I was also doing interview-style like this. I’m cutting those down to probably twenty-minute little interviews. They were doing well too. It’s a different kind of audience.
You have to learn the algorithms and YouTube is all about watch time. If you’ve got a twenty-minute interview and your watch time dives after five minutes, that hurts your algorithm. What I did is I’m launching a podcast for the interview stuff and keeping that hard-hitting 8 to 10-minute content on the YouTube channel. That’s the plan moving forward.
I love hearing how people think through the processes. People often say, “I can’t get started.” They’re too afraid that it’s not going to work out. These processes are things that they’re processing. You figure it out and keep refining it as you go.
Consistency is the key with any of this stuff. You’re running a daily podcast. There’s a huge value in that for people. They know exactly what you’re going to be doing. For me, it’s a weekly episode on my YouTube channel. When people have that consistency, they keep tuning in and keep coming back.
The common mistake I’ve seen is the erratic hosting schedule and you’re like, “I don’t know when this is coming out.” People interests. That’s fascinating. Let’s talk real estate. A little less social and a little more real estate. You talked about a $300 million development project. That’s a lot of fun. How did you go from small deals to looking at something like this and knowing you have the confidence to take it down?
It goes back to a bit of that mindset of going that this transaction is not all that different from the other ones. A lot of people, as they get into real estate investing or investing in general, they think, “I’ll have to start with the single-family dwelling, duplex, triplex, fourplex and then the sixplex so on and so forth.” They would never think of making that jump from the duplex to the $300 million project.
When you boil it down, it comes down to the process of getting from point A to point B the end product. You have to know what that is. You have to put the right people on the bus to be able to get you there. All it is, is bare numbers. The process and transactions are the same. There are more zeroes in the transaction, but there are more zeroes in the profit too.
If you’re going to put your time and your energy into trying to build a 50-unit portfolio over the next ten years, why not try to take it down to one transaction? Even if it took you two years to do that, you’re still ahead of the game and still put in the same amount of time and energy. It’s getting the process down and figuring it out. Once you figure out how to do development in general, it doesn’t matter whether you’re doing twenty units or 500. It’s the same process.
You have to put the right people on the bus to be able to get you there.
I like the simplification of that. I’ve never done any development. That’s intimidating. You go, “Development ground-up. I’ve got a small project we’re doing, but is it development?” No, but you’re saying it’s all the same thing, just more zeros and maybe more labor and materials.
With a ground-up development, if taking something that’s existing, it needs a zoning change, a site plan and control, the draft plan approval and all of that. There’s time involved there. You have to factor all that in. It’s the same. I’m not going to go and sit in front of the planning department and try to sell them on a $300 million development.
That’s not my expertise. I’m going to hire a planner. The bigger the transaction, the more professionals you get involved that know exactly what they’re doing and you’re just quarterbacking the whole thing. I’m not trying to figure out how to build something that’s $120 million. That’s what the builders, the planners and all these people do. That’s their expertise. In a way, it’s sometimes easier because you’re forced to hand that over to the people that know what they’re doing.
In this potential project, what would be your role?
I would be one of the development team. This is not something that I’m going to take on my own. I’ve got people surrounding me, lawyers, people who raise capital, real estate agents, and many people in that circle. What’s important is that you know your role and your responsibility. I have a certain presence in our community based on some of the things that I do with my social media.
My responsibility might be getting the initial word out and being able to talk with some of the people I have connections with, but it’s not going to stop at me. It’s going to be then passed on to somebody else who maybe will have those conversations, which is much better at raising capital than I am or doing all the things. It’s a lot of fun if you can stay in your world where you are best suited and grow from there.
What advice would you give to somebody who is looking or curious about getting into the development world?
You have to look at where there is opportunity. I’m a huge believer in looking at migration patterns of where people want to live and what kind of places they want to live in. You have to be a futurist. You have to look at what is the next thing that people want to live in. If you’re building something that people want to live in now, in five years, they may not want that. A lot of the things that we’re looking at are this possibility of co-living, smaller individual spaces with more common area. Things like elevator shoots or Uber Eats and things like that wouldn’t have existed a while ago.
You’re starting to incorporate that stuff into buildings and access to transit. There are all those things. People don’t necessarily want cars. Our cars are going to be a viable thing in several years. We’re probably all going to have Uber memberships and things like that where we don’t need a vehicle with the technology. The way that it grows exponentially, you have to think of what’s coming and design housing around that. If you can do that, you’re going to be hugely successful in that space.
A bit of a risk is looking to the future and anticipating that. You mentioned a few very real-life examples, maybe those are things you guys are considering. How does someone go about doing that? When you plan ahead, how do you do that?
It depends on your demographic. If you’re marketing to everybody, you’re marketing to no one. What is your niche? Is it seniors housing? Is it long-term care? Is it student rentals? Is it young families? What’s the demographic first? What are they looking for? You’re designing housing around their needs. Nothing works better than having those conversations with people that would be potential users. What is the thing that’s missing in their housing situation?
The curve takes a little while to get there, but flexibility is the main key. Is there a flex space? Is there something in the building that could be a gym today but could be something else tomorrow? You know how the trends work so stuff changes so quickly. Now it’s this trend and tomorrow, it could be something else, so you want to have your buildings designed that way. Even if it’s a small 10-unit development or a 12-unit development, what does that look like in a couple of years?
That’s an intriguing thought, “Building today with the anticipation that it could be repurposed tomorrow.” How does one do that? Do you mark those spaces off and say, “This could be a gym today.”
Everything is up in the air with the pandemic. We’re so focused on what’s happening in front of us. You have to think about things in the perspective of things that are probably going to normalize or they already have started to normalize a little bit. Nothing is going to be the same as pre-COVID. The world has changed significantly, but there will be things that go back to more normalcy that we experienced before the pandemic.
For me, it’s looking at those, “Do we want commercial space? Is it more of that live workspace?” One of our buildings has commercial zoning on the main floor. We chose not to put in any commercial space whatsoever because retail is dying a little bit. What’s thriving and will continue to thrive over the next several years is, “Can somebody live in their unit but have the zoning to allow to operate a small business?” Something like a hair salon that has the zoning and the ability to be able to do that.
It’s also their 2-bedroom, 2-bathroom, 1,200 square foot condo. They don’t need a commercial space. They have everything they have in their residential space but they can operate a business legally out of that space as well. That’s where you have to look at some of those things that are happening and try to get ahead of it.
I can only imagine, especially in denser urban centers here in the states. That would be very challenging to get through codes, permitting or things like that. When you plan for stuff like that, how do you get around that potential hurdle?
I was a part of a real estate mastermind. We had a developer, a professor of development, essentially come in and speak to the group. He’s like, “You got to start thinking a little bit outside of the box. What does the municipality want to see?” That’s a step that so many people miss. “I’m the developer. I want to go in. Here’s what I want. I want a twenty-story tower. I want this and that.” Did anyone ever think to ask the municipality what they want and what they need? If you ask them what they need and want, “We want some low-rise housing with maybe a communal garden,” when you put that application in front of them, that is exactly what they want. What do you think they’re going to do? They’re going to fast-track and approve it. No problem.
If you go in there saying, “This is what we want,” then it’s going to be a completely different process. I always say to people, “Start with asking your municipality or wherever you’re looking to develop what they’re interested in seeing. If it matches your goals and it makes financial sense, then why not produce something like that for them because it’s going to be a much easier time getting it approved?”
If it makes financial sense, then go for it. Darren, is there anything else before we jump into the final four questions that you would love to share with our readers?
For me, real estate investing is a journey. A lot of people are looking to get into it and investing, in general, to get rich quickly. It’s never been that for me. It’s always been a long-term game. Be patient and get educated. Keep listening to things like podcasts. The wealth of knowledge I’ve gained from having these kinds of experiences, even if you just hear one little thing that you can incorporate in the next little while, it’s such a benefit. Hats off to you for being able to create a platform like this where people can come and learn for free. It’s such a way to give back. It’s commendable for sure.
Thank you. I appreciate that. The final four questions are these. If I give you $20,000 to invest in real estate with no previous real estate investing experience, what would you do with it and why?
I’d spent a little bit of money on education, not a ton, probably $1,000, $2,000 and getting the proper education. I’d probably start wholesaling. I’ve never done it. I don’t do much of it at all. When you look at the impact of what it can get you for the amount that you have invested in it, to me, it’s one of the best strategies. I’m also a big believer in the BRRRR strategy. Recycling capital and doing that over and over again. Those are my two favorites. I do a combination of wholesaling, flipping and BRRRR-ing properties.
The wholesaling answer, I’ve only gotten maybe once or twice. I’m always shocked by that because it costs so little. With $2,000 to $4,000, you can have all your mailers out and get a bite on a line somewhere.
It’s low-risk. What’s the risk in wholesaling? When you don’t get a buyer, you back out of the transaction.
Number two, if you could help our readers avoid one mistake in real estate, what would it be and how would you avoid it?
I would avoid this mentality of there’s a natural progression where I have to grow my business. Go from singles to duplexes to 3, 4, 5 to 6. It doesn’t exist in real estate. If you want to start with a 100-unit building as your very first purchase, it’s available to you. Take that away, whatever it is you want to do. If your end goal is somewhere, just start there. You might have to start smaller, but if your end goal is to buy and do development, why would you start with a single-family dwelling?
Number three, when it comes to investing in the world, what’s one thing you’re doing to make the world a better place?
I was talking about this with one of my business partners. I’ve always struggled with my why and being able to give back. What I’ve realized is I’m passionate about rescue animals, specifically dogs. I have a rescue dog. My next giveback is going to be to set up an animal sanctuary. I’m building in Costa Rica. I’d love to go down there, set up a dog rescue sanctuary, be able to provide care and have those dogs adopted. That’s what I’d like to do next.
If our readers want to get in touch with you, Darren, what is the best way to do that?
Info@DarrenVoros.com is the easiest way. That’s my email. My website is DarrenVoros.com or check out my YouTube channel and send me a DM on Instagram. Either one of those will all work.
Darren, thank you so much for your time.
Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
Important Links:
- Darren Voros
- YouTube – Darren Voros
- Who Not How
- www.REDIDevelopments.ca
- Info@DarrenVoros.com
- Instagram – Darren Voros
About Darren Voros
Darren’s diverse skill set has taken him to many stages around the world. He has been featured as an on-air renovation expert on “The Goods” (CBC) and “CityLine” (CityTV). Darren was also the behind-the-scenes contractor on “Save My Reno” (HGTV) and “Game of Homes (W Network). Darren is an accomplished real estate investor, trainer, and coach.
He controls a portfolio of properties worth just over $20,000,000 and has traveled across North America educating, inspiring and motivating audiences on the subject of real estate investing, financial independence and financial literacy. Darren’s willingness to give back prompted him to launch his YouTube channel in 2020 in order to have a wider reach in educating investors. When Darren is not on TV, speaking or acquiring new real estate, he can be found spending time with friends & family, at the yoga studio or walking his Mexican rescue pup – Ella
